Thanks to Kuang for pointing me in this direction. Anyone else get serious pangs when you see the SWB Quattro? Or the little Renault Gordini for that matter (or is a Turbo II?). Anti-lag is really very..er.. poetic. No, it is. And so is 900-odd bhp, in the right hands.
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great stuff
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=qefKc-SPR-I
And while we’re on the subject of how awesome the Audi Group B car sounded: http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=hEK7POxpVeE
Glorious, simply glorious. the pinnicle of rallying
Not getting bored of that stuff Viper… It does sound like they have to mitigate their throttle inputs more than they do these days though. They tend to be more on/off. But who’d be up for a campaign to bring back Group B? We’ve got better fire extinguisher equipment now – though the trees are still as unforgiving.
I think I want a Manta.
Music to my ears
You know, I was discussing a potential return of Group B with a couple of friends the other day, and we too came to the conclusion that you could preserve the ethic (experimentation, innovation and pushing the boundaries as far as you could) but still ensure that the cars didn’t burst into flames every five minutes.
For any doubters, consider that the cars that run Pike’s Peak are Group B to the bone (etchically, if not from the same developmental bloodline)and people seem to get out of that in relatively few pieces
I think the only downer might be that some of the technical solutions applied back in group B’s heyday (Audi’s hydraulic foot crushing piston based semi-auto gearbox, Lancia’s mental twin charger system on the Delta) have now been superceded by effective systems developed for the road, so there’s possibly less room for lunacy. Having said that, belting a hatchback packing a thousand ponies plus around twisty hillsides is never going to be dull, and the hardcore street racer crowd seem pretty good at taking stock hardware and injecting it with a good dose of insanity. A composer (whose name I forget), on listening to a friend complaining that all of the good music had been written, pointed to the sea and said ‘oh look, the last wave is coming in’ – there’s still hope
Lead on Mr Ford, I’m up for a comebck
Some of those are from the 1986 Portugal Rally. One of Ford’s RS200’s lost control and smashed into the crowd killing 3 people and injuring 20. After that all the good teams dropped out. Accidents like this is what lead to the banning of the 700-1000hp rally cars and they are all limited to 300hp.
Damn those health and safety officers of today! limiting the power of subaru’s and mistubishi’s, if they had 700BHP rallying would be what it’s all about. Testing the drivers skill.
The RS200 accident was because the car came over a combination jump/right turn and the crowd were standing way out into the road – there was no way the driver could have avoided them, and many drivers (especially from the Metro team) said they’d give up driving on the day unless something was done to keep the crowds back. You also had the situation where the Audi Quattro hit two spectators on the Isle of Man because they were crossing the road around a blind corner. Crowd’s have always been the problem, not the speed of the cars – you can wipe someone out with 300hp just as easily as with 1000.
The real nail in Group B’s coffin was the death of Henri Toivonen on a Corsican hillside in 86, when his Delta went over the edge and exploded with such force tht there was almost nothing left to be winched away. The fuel tank on those was under the driver’s seat to assist the centre of gravity, and you had no chance of walking away if it ruptured during a stack.
Two years before that, Ari Vatanen had hit some standing water and completely flipped his 205 T16 into the trees, highlighting the inherent instability of the car. Later revisions were fitted with that huge spoiler, but it showed that the vehicles were already hanging over the edge of envelope, and the Delta that killed Toivonen was arguably the most knife-edge of all.
bring back group B !
bring back group B BUT WITH AN ARMATURE LEAGUE THAT’S BASICALLY STREET RACING BUT LEGALISED AND WITH NO LIMITS ON CARS TO ENTER SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A MASSIVELY TUNED R8 VS A SUPER TUNED ZONDA LIKE IN THE NEW NEED FOR SPEED
Tom, I was wondering if there is a way to send you videos. Like if you had a top gear e-mail sort of thing.
just one question. What’s up with fire out of their exhaust and the loud bang every-time they change gear?
absolute symphony. Im with you Mr Ford, BRING BACK GROUP 2 RALLYING!! imagine it with the cars of today
michiel1551 – the cars ran exceptionally rich and when they backed off the power quickly, all the unburned fuel was shot out into the exhaust where it combusted as soon as it hit the hot metal.
Er, thought that was primitiuve anti-lag? Big turbo cars back in the day kept their turbos on-boost by injecting raw fuel into the turbo. It combusted and kept the turbo spooling even off-throttle – hence the flames and brap-brap during ‘changes and trailing throttle. A car would definitely do the same if totally over-fuelling as Kuang says – but in this case it’s the anti-lag, I reckon. As I’ve said before, I like anti-lag…
The understanding I had of early anti-lag systems was that they dumped extra fuel into the exhaust manifold ahead of the turbo (directly, via a bypass or by massively retarded ignition) and combined that with a rush of air diverted trom the other side of the turbo. The heat and the air pressure would cause it to combust, and the resulting pressure wave would spool up the turbo faster. As it span up, the post-turbo gas would still be fuel rich and moving faster so the flash you saw at the end would be what was left hitting the hot metal of the exhaust. I’m far from a mechanic though so please don’t quote me
Having said that I’ve never considered whether or not the flash pre-turbo would clear the blades and make it that far back. I’d imagine it’s entirely possible, and demonstrates the savage forces that the turbos had to deal with. Makes my vRS look positively tame
Either way, it’s one of the most recognisable and emotive sounds in motorsport for me, and I never tire of it
in the Rohrl-video you can see, that he’s rarely off the throttle, even when he brakes. that’s another reason for the flames, if it’s not ALS
and i’ve just made myself an idiot…
Kuang’s answer is correct
http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=lWHnfm3LN4Q
Tom:
Does html-codes work in posting?
Good God that Porsche (959?) sounds DELIGHTFUL at about 2:30..
I wish I were around for this epic era of rallying.
er,lads what about the nissan 240rs or porsche 959 both great cars but still the audi sport quattro s1 is the king of group b’s and yes,group b should definitely come back,citroen hyper c4 with an 850bhp rear-mounted v12 anyone?
i thought that was a regular 911…dont no the model though..2 best ever:audi and 205
Oh good god they sounded amazing! The 911, SWB Quattro and bonkers Metro 6R4 have to me my favorites. Group B has to make a comeback, the technology is there and now, probably more importantly, the safety is there too.
Anyone remember the legend McRae surviving driving off a cliff in his Focus? Or how about Solberg flattening his Impreza in WRC Germany?
So, lets bring back Group B!!
Oh and on a different non group B (but still gorgeous sound) check out this BMW 635csi rally car:
http://uk.youtube.com/wat ch?v=y70E98GVlBg
You can almost forgive Rover of anything – even the 800 – when you see the 6R4 strutting it’s stuff and think that without them (at least in part) such a mad little car wouldn’t have been made. Which lunatic looked at a boggo Metro on it’s 135 section tyres and 40bhp one-litre engine and thought “yup, now there’s a car that needs 600bhp”?
Wasn’t Clarkson was it? Before he learned to fail at mods?
I think the Porsche was a 911 SCRS, in Rothmans colours. I can’t tell you who’s driving it, but my guess is either Henri Toivonen or Bernhard Beguins – if that road is in Corsica, which it does resemble, then it’s probably the latter.